Mijn Quarter bijna 2 jaar...
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- Irene K.
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- Berichten: 315
- Geregistreerd: 06-09-01
- Woonplaats: N-Holland
Geplaatst: 19-02-04 18:05
Irene
About Ranger, a 2,5 year old
Right now though I want to return to the issue of maturity and deal with that concept thoroughly. Ranger is not mature, as I said, as a 2 1/2 year old. This is NOT because Ranger is a "slow-maturing" individual or because he comes from a "slow maturing" breed. There is no such thing. Let me repeat that: no horse on earth, of any breed, at any time, is or has ever been mature before the age of six (plus or minus six months). This information comes, I know, as a shock to many people who think starting their colt or filly under saddle at age two is what they ought to be doing. This begs discussion of (1) what I mean by "mature" and (2) what I mean by "starting."
(1) Just about everybody has heard of the horse's "growth plates," and commonly when I ask 'em, people tell me that the "growth plates" are somewhere around, or in, the horse's knees (actually they're located at the bottom of the radius-ulna bone just above the knee). This is what gives rise to the saying that, before riding the horse, it's best to wait "until his knees close" (i.e., until the growth plates fuse to the bone shaft and cease to be separated from it by a layer of slippery, crushable cartilage). What people often don't realize is that there is a "growth plate" on either end of EVERY bone behind the skull, and in the case of some bones (like the pelvis, which has many "corners") there are multiple growth plates.
So do you then have to wait until ALL these growth plates fuse? No. But the longer you wait, the safer you'll be. Owners and trainers need to realize there's a definite, easy-to-remember schedule of fusion - and then make their decision as to when to ride the horse based on that rather than on the external appearance of the horse. For there are some breeds of horse - the Quarter Horse is the premier among these - which have been bred in such a manner as to LOOK mature long before they actually ARE mature. This puts these horses in jeopardy from people who are either ignorant of the closure schedule, or more interested in their own schedule (for futurities or other competitions) than they are in the welfare of the animal.
The process of fusion goes from the bottom up. In other words, the lower down toward the hoofs you look, the earlier the growth plates will have fused; and the higher up toward the animal's back you look, the later. The growth plate at the top of the coffin bone (the most distal bone of the limb) is fused at birth. What this means is that the coffin bones get no TALLER after birth (they get much larger around, though, by another mechanism). That's the first one. In order after that:
2. Short pastern - top & bottom between birth and 6 mos.
3. Long pastern - top & bottom between 6 mos. And 1 yr.
4. Cannon bone - top & bottom between 8 mos. And 1.5 yrs.
5. Small bones of knee - top & bottom on each, between 1.5 and 2.5 yrs.
6. Bottom of radius-ulna - between 2 and 2.5 yrs.
7. Weight-bearing portion of glenoid notch at top of radius - between 2.5 and 3 yrs.
8. Humerus - top & bottom, between 3 and 3.5 yrs.
9. Scapula - glenoid or bottom (weight-bearing) portion - between 3.5 and 4 yrs.
10. Hindlimb - lower portions same as forelimb
11. Hock - this joint is "late" for as low down as it is; growth plates on the tibial & fibular tarsals don't fuse until the animal is four (so the hocks are a known "weak point" - even the 18th-century literature warns against driving young horses in plow or other deep or sticky footing, or jumping them up into a heavy load, for danger of spraining their hocks)
12. Tibia - top & bottom, between 2.5 and 3 yrs.
13. Femur - bottom, between 3 and 3.5 yrs.; neck, between 3.5 and 4 yrs.; major and 3rd trochanters, between 3 and 3.5 yrs.
14. Pelvis - growth plates on the points of hip, peak of croup (tubera sacrale), and points of buttock (tuber ischii), between 3 and 4 yrs.
...and what do you think is last? The vertebral column, of course. A normal horse has 32 vertebrae between the back of the skull and the root of the dock, and there are several growth plates on each one, the most important of which is the one capping the centrum. These do not fuse until the horse is at least 5 1/2 years old (and this figure applies to a small-sized, scrubby, range-raised mare. The taller your horse and the longer its neck, the later full fusion will occur. And for a male - is this a surprise? -- you add six months. So, for example, a 17-hand TB or Saddlebred or WB gelding may not be fully mature until his 8th year - something that owners of such individuals have often told me that they "suspected" ).
The lateness of vertebral "closure" is most significant for two reasons. One: in no limb are there 32 growth plates! Two: The growth plates in the limbs are (more or less) oriented perpendicular to the stress of the load passing through them, while those of the vertebral chain are oriented parallel to weight placed upon the horse's back. Bottom line: you can sprain a horse's back (i.e., displace the vertebral growth plates) a lot more easily than you can sprain those located in the limbs. And here's another little fact: within the chain of vertebrae, the last to fully "close" are those at the base of the animal's neck (that's why the long-necked individual may go past 6 yrs. to achieve full maturity). So you also have to be careful - very careful - not to yank the neck around on your young horse, or get him in any situation where he strains his neck (i.e., better learn how to get a horse broke to tie before you ever tie him up, so that there will be no likelihood of him ever pulling back hard. And readers if you don't know how to do this, then please somebody write in and ask!).
Now, the other "maturity" question I always get is this: "so how come if my colt is not skeletally mature at age 2 he can be used at stud and sire a foal?" My answer to that is this: sure, sweetie, if that's how you want to define maturity, then every 14 year old boy is mature. In other words, the ability to achieve an erection, penetrate a mare, and ejaculate some semen containing live sperm cells occurs before skeletal maturity, both in our species and in the horse. However, even if you only looked at sperm counts or other standard measures of sexual maturity that are used for livestock, you would know that considering a 2 year old a "stallion" is foolish. Male horses do not achieve the testicular width or weight, quality or quantity of total ejaculate, or high sperm counts until they're six. Period. And people used to know this; that's why it's incorrect to refer to any male horse younger than 4 as a "stallion," whether he's in service or not. Peoples' confusion on this question is also why we have such things as the Stallion Rehabilitation Program at Colorado State University or the behavior-modification clinic at Cornell - because a two year old colt is no more able to "take command" on a mental or psychological level of the whole process of mating - which involves everything from "properly" being able to ask the mare's permission, to actually knowing which end of her to jump on, to being able to do this while some excited and usually frightened humans are banging him on the nose with a chain - than is a 14 year old boy.
(2) Now, let's turn to the second discussion, which is what I mean by "starting" and the whole history of that. Many people today - at least in our privileged country -- do not realize how hard you can actually work a horse - which is very, very hard. But before you can do that without significantly damaging the animal, you have to wait for him to mature, which means - waiting until he is four to six years old before asking him to carry you on his back. What bad will happen if you put him to work as a riding horse before that? Two important things - and probably not what you're thinking of. What is very UNlikely to happen is that you'll damage the growth plates in his legs. At the worst, there may be some crushing of the cartilages, but the number of cases of deformed limbs due to early use is tiny. The cutting-horse futurity people, who are big into riding horses as young as a year and a half, will tell you this and they are quite correct. Want to damage legs? There's a much better way - just overfeed your youngstock (see Forum postings on this. You ought to be able to see the animal's ribs - not skeletal, but see 'em - until he's two).
More likely is that you'll cause structural damage to his back. There are some bloodlines (in Standardbreds, Arabians, and American Saddlebreds) known to inherit weak deep intervertebral ligament sheathing; these animals are especially prone to the early, sudden onset of "saddle back". However, individuals belonging to these bloodlines are by no means the only ones who may have their back "slip" and that's because, as mentioned above, the stress of weightbearing on the back passes parallel to the growth plates as well as the intervertebral joints. However, I want to add that the frequency of slipped backs in horses under 6 years old is also very low.
So, what's to worry about? Well...did you ever wish your horse would "round up" a little better? Collect a little better? Respond to your leg by raising his back, coiling his loins, and getting his hindquarter up underneath him a little better? The young horse knows, by feel and by "instinct", that having a weight on his back puts him in physical jeopardy. I'm sure that all of you start your youngstock in the most humane and considerate way that you know how, and just because of that, I assure you that after a little while, your horse knows exactly what that saddle is and what that situation where you go to mount him means. And he loves you, and he is wiser than you are, so he allows this. But he does not allow it foolishly, against his deepest nature, which amounts to a command from the Creator that he must survive; so when your foot goes in that stirrup, he takes measures to protect himself.
The measures he takes are the same ones YOU would take in anticipation of a load coming onto your back: he stiffens or braces the muscles of his topline, and to help himself do that he may also brace his legs and hold his breath ("brace" his diaphragm). The earlier you choose to ride your horse, the more the animal will do this, and the more often you ride him young, the more you reinforce in his mind the necessity of responding to you in this way. So please - don't come crying to me when your 6 year old (that was started under saddle as a two year old) proves difficult to round up! (Not that I'm not gonna help you but GEEZ).
If he does not know how to move with his back muscles in release, he CANNOT round up!!
So - bottom line - if you are one of those who equates "starting" with "riding," then I guess you better not start your horse until he's four. That would be the old, traditional, worldwide view: introduce the horse to equipment (all kinds of equipment and situations) when he's two, crawl on and off of him at three, saddle him to begin riding him and teaching him to guide at four, start teaching him maneuvers or the basics of whatever job he's going to do - cavalletti or stops or something beyond trailing cattle - at five, and he's on the payroll at 6. The old Spanish way of bitting reflected this also, because the horse's teeth aren't mature (i.e., the tushes haven't come in and all the permanent teeth) until he's six either.
This is what I'd do if it were my own horse. Now I'm at liberty to do that because I'm not on anybody else's schedule except my horse's own schedule. I'm not a participant in futurities or planning to be. Are you? If you are, well, that's your business. But most horse owners aren't. Please ask yourself: is there any reason that you have to be riding that particular horse before he's four?
There is one last consideration before I go back to direct discussion of Ranger's physique. When I say "start" a horse I do NOT equate that with riding him. To start a young horse well is one of the finest tests (and proofs) of superior horsemanship. Anyone who does not know how to start a horse does not know how to finish one. The animal does not belong inside a fence or in a stall, and yet that's where he's gonna have to live and work. You, the owner, have the following as a minimum list of "things to accomplish" together with your young horse before he's four years old when you DO start him under saddle:
1. Comfortable being touched all over. COMFORTABLE not put-upon or tolerate, but comfortable as in man he really looks forward to it.
2. This includes interior of mouth, muzzle, jowls, ears, sheath/udder, tail, front feet and hind feet. Pick 'em up and they should be floppy.
3. Knows how to lead up. No fear; no drag in the feet.
4. Manners enough to lead at your shoulder, stop or go when he sees your body get ready to stop or go; if spooks does not jump toward or onto you, will not violate your space unless specifically invited to do so.
5. Leads through gate or into stall without charging.
6. Knows how to tie and knows what his options are when tied.
7. Ponies.
8. Carries smooth nonleverage bit in mouth. Lowers head and opens mouth when asked; bit can be removed without horse throwing his head up.
9. Will work with a drag (tarp, sack half filled with sand, light tire, or sledge and harness)
10. Mounts drum or sturdy stand with front feet.
11. Free longes - come when called and respond calmly to driving request - relaxed and eager.
12. When started, leaves without any sign of fleeing; when stopped, plants hind feet and coils loins - does not depend on your hand to stop him.
13. Familiar with being girthed; if necessary, allowing horse to work out any need to buck in pen at liberty.
14. Knows how to back up
15. Loads in trailer (he must know how to back up before loading him in).
...And various people might like to add to this list. Please do...just so long as what you're asking your young horse isn't more than he can physically do. Mentally and emotionally - those are the big areas in getting one started. I've had people act, when I gave them the above facts and advice about starting youngstock, like waiting four years was just MORE than they could possibly stand. I think they feel this way because the list of things which they would like to include as necessary before attempting to ride is very short - their whole focus is on riding as why they bought the animal and they think they have a right to this. Well...the horse, good friend to mankind that he is, will soon show them what HE thinks they have a right to. And what the horse will allow will be more generous, I assure you, than some of these people deserve.
So what else to say about Ranger? By the time he's fully mature, he'll have a more muscular neck, which he will want (if he's allowed in the training process) to arch more at the base but carry lower at the poll. His back will be a little longer than it now is, the withers will be higher and the loins a little broader. His pelvis will be longer and the musculature covering it will be much fuller. He has (typical of TWH) already a tremendous shoulder and a wonderful long arm - he'll have a heckuva long, flowing forward reach. He has good crisp hocks and is not more crooked in the hindlimb than I think proper for his breed - he's only slightly more angulated/long in the hindlimb than I would ideally like. He's got adequate (not outstanding) "bone", and good-sized, well-shaped hoofs.
Ranger's back is held a little stiffly and I'm sure the owner knows why by now. Many folks who own gaited breeds complain that they (TWH, Pasos, ASB, Rocky Mtn., etc., etc.) have a "tendency" to hard-pace rather than four-beat gait, and this also comes from the habitual stiffening of the back. Gaiting (all forms of it) has the same footfall ORDER (left hind, left fore, right hind, right fore) and basic mechanism as the ordinary walk (what TWH people call a "dog walk") - and no horse can walk in good rhythm with good "reach" and good "nod" unless his back is free to oscillate both up and down and (especially) from side to side in time with the motions of his legs. Take away the emotional worry and mental concern...teach the animal to release the muscles of his topline and those of the crest of his neck...and all your concerns with whether he has a good "nod" or why he is maybe pacing are going to fade right away.
Thanks for writing in, and please give ol' Ranger a little scratchin' in his favorite spot for me.
Best wishes...Dr. Deb
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- Cer
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- Berichten: 30203
- Geregistreerd: 22-10-01
Geplaatst: 19-02-04 21:51
Cassidy schreef:Ik denk dat er twee dingen door elkaar gehaald worden. Het zadelmak maken (leren longeren, maar dat ook geen uren per dag en 7 dagen per week) hoofdstelletje in, zadeltje op en misschien gewicht erop, al is het maar hangen, of echt uitgebreid inrijden, knoppen erop zetten, en gaan spinnen en sliden.
En dat komt waarschijnlijk omdat de meeste mensen zich niet in kunnen houden als het eenmaal 'lekker gaat'. Ook ik heb twee jarige gezien die 'rustig' aan het werk gingen, en puntje bij paaltje werden ze gewoon doorgereden want het ging zo goed, en een jaar land is zonde, dan krijg je achterstand en nog meer van dat soort ongein.
Het is hier al een paar keer gezegd, mensen hebben gewoon geen geduld. Het ligt eraan hoe sterk je zelf bent, om het daadwerkelijk bij een beetje oefenen te houden, en niet stiekum al ff een rondje te draaien, en een stopje te maken, en dan nog 1 en nog een paar rondjes.. en oh ja, morgen en overmorgen toch ook maar even oppakken want het ging niet zo best, het paardje moet 'door een fase heen'... en voor je het weet is het paard zes en komt van ellende niet meer vooruit. Niet dat die eigenaren dat dan in de gaten hebben trouwens..... Quarters lopen nu eenmaal kort, en ze zijn jong volgroeid, en je hoeft ze niet op te warmen..en oh ja.. ze zijn niet als andere paarden want ze komen uit Texas....
- Malabarista
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Geplaatst: 20-02-04 14:14
Mercy schreef:Heb je er weer een!!!
Leren jullie het nou nooit???
!!!TWEE JAAR IS TE VROEG!!!
Ik lag dubbel toen ik dit las!
Is nog maar 1.000.000x gezegd ofzo.Lees de voorgaande pagina's...
Ik heb mijn paard nu 3,5 jaar achter in de tuin gehad. Ik heb haar 1 à 2 keer gelongeerd in de maand sinds ze ongeveer 2,5 was. Soms tijden niet omdat de tijd me ontbrak. Ik ben blij dat ik haar dat toen al heb geleerd. Toen ze 3 was heb ik haar voor het eerst een zadel opgelegd. En ben ik een paar keer op en af gestapt. Ook wat rond gestapt en beetje gedraaft. Dat heb ik een paar keer gedaan en nu is de tijd aangebroken om echt te beginnen.
Heb haar pas geleden op een stal gezet zodat ik meer faciliteiten heb dan alleen een buitenbakkie. Nu is ze bijna 4 en ga ik officieel beginnen. Longeer haar nu bijna elke dag en ze krijgt al wat meer spiertjes. Maar met die spiertjes krijgt ze ook meer streken. Ze kàn bokken! Ik stond laatst eventjes te kijken...
Heeft ze gelukkig nog niet gedaan toen ik erop zat. Maar dat zal misschien nog komen als ze sterker wordt.. of niet natuurlijk. Ze is wel lief 
- Cassidy
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Geplaatst: 20-02-04 14:51
- Malabarista
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Geplaatst: 20-02-04 19:46
Om artrose te krijgen moet je toch een beetje aanleg hebben?
Ik ben in ieder geval niet van plan om mijn paardje hard aan te gaan pakken. Ik houd van rustig aandoen. Ik zou zelf ook niet in een spoedcursus onderricht willen worden.
- Sonja_vR
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- SuperRoos
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Geplaatst: 23-02-04 17:47
Sammy_Jo schreef:Jeetje miena zeg...Texas van mij loopt 1 keer in de week hooguit 10 minuten aan de longe en dan nog maar stap en draf !!
En dan zijn jullie natuurlijk van mening dat ik hem elke dag longeer of zo ?
Het blijft een jong beestje en daar hou ik echt wel rekening mee !
Dit is niet de eerste jaarling die ik train... dus weet best wat ik doe !
( Vraag dat maar eens aan Vikki, ik train/leer haar Arabiertje (Eclips) ook )
Mijn vraag was alleen...zijn er nog meer van jullie die ook van de lente
iets gaan doen ?
Maar de meeste vinden het belangerijker om gelijk aan te vallen.
wat een discussie zeg, haha, ik ga je niet aanvallen want ik vind dat je het zo goed doet,
mijn (proef)fjordje is nu 2 jaar en 3 maand dus als ik hem idd hou dan zal ik van het voorjaar ook het een en ander gaan proberen,
het enige wat ik nu met hem doe is elke dag wandelen enzorgen dat hij achter me blijft, stilstaan en wat stapjes achteruit, verder doe ik dus PNH en werk dus met de seven games, ook die doe ik lekker met hem en dan gewoon tevreden zijn met alles een paar stapjes
ik hang ook wel eens over hem heen, gewoon met voeten op de grond hoor mensen, maar gewoon ff leunen, misschien 10 kilo wat hij voelt,
op deze leeftijd kun je daar echt makkelijk mee beginnen,
als je kan zien aan de bouw van het dier dat het daar al klaar voor is,
als je als 2 jarige nog echt zo'n scharminkel hebt dat bijna omdonderd als je hem bij zn schoft duwt dan zal ik dr ff mee wachten,
veel succes sammy_jo
- DubbelFun
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Geplaatst: 23-02-04 17:56
SuperRoos schreef:als je kan zien aan de bouw van het dier dat het daar al klaar voor is, als je als 2 jarige nog echt zo'n scharminkel hebt dat bijna omdonderd als je hem bij zn schoft duwt dan zal ik dr ff mee wachten
Het veel gehoorde misverstand dus weer.
Lees het 'stukje' tekst van Irene.K eens door en zoek het bijbehorende plaatje over de groeischijven er eens bij.
- SuperRoos
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Geplaatst: 23-02-04 18:39
maar ik bedoel ook niet een verschil van dat je dan op een stevige 2 jarige al wel mag zitten, tuurlijk niet, maar met en scharminkel 2 jarige doe je gewoon minder, zo bedoel ik het zeg maar,
met elke 2 jarige doe je dezelfde zwaarte arbeid zeg maar, maar als ze er minder uit zien doe je minder,
als ze er beter uit zien, doe je ook niet meer!
- DANIenVLIEG
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Geplaatst: 23-02-04 22:13
Als ik jou was zou ik gewoon nog een half jaartje wachten, begin lekker na de zomervakantie
, als het weideseizoen is afgelopen, dat is de beste tijd om te beginnen met zadel etc. 
Mijn paardje wordt eind maart 3
en die heeft nog nooit een zadel opgehad, want ik wil daar toch wel mee wachten tot hij voldoende is uitgegroeid, en ik er een goed passend zadel op kan leggen. - Cer
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Geplaatst: 23-02-04 22:54
Cassidy schreef:Bij ons op stal staat een paardje waar ze met 4 jaar mee zijn begonnen. Paardje was niet beleerd dat hij kwam (op vierjarige leeftijd), is voorzichtig aangereden, maar is de laatste tijd vaker kreupel geweest. Afgelopen week zijn ze naar de kliniek geweest voor foto's. Diagnose: Artrose....
Ik zou bijna gaan denken dat het een QH betreft met een erfelijk belaste bloedlijn (er wordt nogal raak gefokt), maar voor hetzelfde geld is het een ander ras...
Daar ben ik best nieuwsgierig naar, ook met het oog op ons fokbeleid... antwoord kan per PB eventueel?
- Sammy_Jo
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- dirkje
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Geplaatst: 24-02-04 10:12
- Pooky
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Geplaatst: 24-02-04 18:12
echt absurd!
(sorry voor het felle taalgebruik)
