Bokt.nl

**Geplaatst door de TopicStarter** : 02-11-10 12:49

Lancelot (Voltaire x Nimmerdor) as a damsire

Geplaatst door de TopicStarter : 02-11-10 12:49

translation via google:

Hallo,

Ik heb een veulen op de grond dit jaar in Ierland door Lancelot (KWPN), en in het maken van mijn plan voor de toekomst ik ben benieuwd hoe succesvol hij is als een vader van moeders (mv), omdat ik weet is hij in de fokkerij Holland voor bepaalde tijd. Het is gewoon om indien zij een veulen van haar te zien voordat concurrerende moet een optie zijn.

Als er een andere site / informatie die u zou kunnen wijzen me naar Ook dat zou nuttig zijn!

dank u,
Bill

or the original text:

Hello,

I have a foal on the ground this year in Ireland by Lancelot (KWPN), and in making my plan for the future I am wondering how successful he has been as a sire of mothers (damsire), as I know he has been breeding in Holland for some time. It is just to see if having a foal from her before competing should be an option.

If there is any other site/information you could point me towards also that would be helpful!

thank you,
Bill

**Geplaatst**: 02-11-10 12:56

Re: Lancelot (Voltaire x Nimmerdor) as a damsire

Geplaatst: 02-11-10 12:56

Bill, I know three horses by Lancelot and they are all very nice to work with, good character and also have good gaits. Two are jumping succesfully in 120 and 130 classes and the other one is level 3/4 dressage. As damsire he should be great and solid, but he will not add special movement or anything except for his good character all by himself.

**Geplaatst door de TopicStarter** : 02-11-10 13:33

Re: Lancelot (Voltaire x Nimmerdor) as a damsire

Geplaatst door de TopicStarter : 02-11-10 13:33

Thank you lovely!

So far the model is good, if not a little short, but well muscled/coupled. Like you say the movement is nothing special, but then neither has the mare (ex tb jump race, so blood, ok movement but bigger old style tb, 1.78m).

As for temperament, Lancelot is great, but there is some fight able to present itself in filly which I like, and she is already exploring. If she would be a 1.35/1.45m jumper is my aim (knowing that the mare does not bring proven background) however the goal is to breed this on to next generation, and then again to next generation!

Lancelots goal for me was to bring looks, temperament, technique and a little scope, so I hope if somebody has seen has this translated through / was retained strongly in the gene/DNA after breeding a filly by lancelot, what was the foal like, and as you say yes, that Lancelot was then the grand sire.

Sorry if my writing is confusing!

in summary, does anybody have this:

sire:? x dam:? x grandsire:Lancelot

We do not have many Lancelots in Ireland yet, I think his owners first crop are three rising four, so commercial horses by him should be 2 years coming 3 years old now

**Geplaatst**: 02-11-10 15:32

Re: Lancelot (Voltaire x Nimmerdor) as a damsire

Geplaatst: 02-11-10 15:32

maybe you can look here

www.paardenfokken.nl

**Geplaatst door de TopicStarter** : 02-11-10 15:48

Geplaatst door de TopicStarter : 02-11-10 15:48

[***] schreef:
maybe you can look here

http://www.paardenfokken.nl

Thank you [***]

**Geplaatst**: 02-11-10 15:56

Re: Lancelot (Voltaire x Nimmerdor) as a damsire

Geplaatst: 02-11-10 15:56

Tricky question.
I have a mare from Lancelot, 11 years old now, who has given birth to 3 foals already before I bought her.
Last one is still with the mare' s previous owner, I have pictures of the little man I can e-mail to you and further I can request the previous owner if you can contact her.
Lancelot has indeed been available for breeding in the Netherlands but seen the fact that his offspring was so goodlooking and promising, they have sold all over Europe. Result was that, because practically no succesfull offspring was here to represent his genes, it took till this year to accept Lancelot fully in the KWPN studbook (before that, he had a "waiting to be full approved" status). This will also not help to find offspring in the Netherlands, because a lot of people passed him by for breeding, afraid that they would end up with a foal of a sire without full approval of the studbook.

**Geplaatst door de TopicStarter** : 02-11-10 16:24

Geplaatst door de TopicStarter : 02-11-10 16:24

foxy80 schreef:
I can e-mail to you and further I can request the previous owner if you can contact her.

I would love if you could email me pictures of your 11 yr old. Who is she out of (dam & damsire?) Yes I would like to get in touch with the person who has the horse with him as a grandsire. I will PM you my email address

foxy80 schreef:
Result was that, because practically no succesfull offspring was here to represent his genes, it took till this year to accept Lancelot fully in the KWPN studbook (before that, he had a "waiting to be full approved" status). This will also not help to find offspring in the Netherlands, because a lot of people passed him by for breeding, afraid that they would end up with a foal of a sire without full approval of the studbook.

That would explain a lot! I though that he was approved, then removed on hold or investigation (which is probably why he came to Ireland!) I know he was only recently approved (again?) based on the performance of the American jumpers by him. I have read that they take time to develop.

I thought there would still be some around in Holland. So presumably none/not many are breeding, all all are either sold or used as amateur horses?

**Geplaatst**: 02-11-10 17:50

Re: Lancelot (Voltaire x Nimmerdor) as a damsire

Geplaatst: 02-11-10 17:50

Pics of my mare are below in my profile.
In full, she is called Samira de Haar (but I prefer to call her Serenity)
Her mother is Namira de Haar, born out of Voltaire.
Namira got the "elite" status and was sold to ... the UK, were she is now for sale at Solland Stud (you can google their site)
Namira was used in the UK to promote the KWPN studbook btw.

Yes, you got the story right. The fact that his final status was not approved and they put on hold untill this year, when he was finally approved, was not doing him any good in the Netherlands. The reasoning was that there was not enough good offspring from him, but they only looked in the Netherlands! In fact, his offspring was that good that it did not stay in the Netherlands untill the age of 3...

My Serenity did end up as amateur horse, and unfortunately this has created the nasty side effect that jumping equals racing to her. Below 1 mtr she does not take the fences seriously and tries to make things more fun by speeding (she never hesitates, she never stops en she flies over without touching it). When she is in competition, she is an angel, each fence is different and interesting, she loves it!
Bokt assembles a lot of people, but amongst them, I have only found 2 horses with a Lancelot father...

**Geplaatst door de TopicStarter** : 02-11-10 18:50

Geplaatst door de TopicStarter : 02-11-10 18:50

The mare looks very nice. Thank you for the information, and best of luck going forward!

**Geplaatst**: 02-11-10 20:21

Re: Lancelot (Voltaire x Nimmerdor) as a damsire

Geplaatst: 02-11-10 20:21

Hello Bill ,

I don't have a horse from Lancelot but I have a mare from the full sister of the mother of Lancelot and two of her daughters.
They all have nice models.
The young Lancelots indeed need some time to develope.
But when they get their time you have a fine sporthorse with a nice character.

**Geplaatst door de TopicStarter** : 02-11-10 21:46

Geplaatst door de TopicStarter : 02-11-10 21:46

Hello Eilander,

so your mare is one of these -> http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.php?h=passe3&g=5&query_type=progeny&search_bar=progeny&done=y&inbred=Standard&x2=n&username=&password=&x=0&y=0

Who are the two daughters by? My foal by Lancelot can be seen here -> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=705994780

thank you for all the help.looking at the website that [***] posted earlier has been very helpful
http://www.paardenfokken.nl

regards,
Bill

**Geplaatst**: 02-11-10 23:47

Re: Lancelot (Voltaire x Nimmerdor) as a damsire

Geplaatst: 02-11-10 23:47

Bill, I can't see your facebook.
Our mare is one of Passe.
The mare you give a link from.
Her name is Lavendel and you can find her also on
www.horsetelex.nl (or paardenfokken.nl)
She is a daughter of Edelvrouw (By nimmerdor) wich is a daughter from Passe and a full sister of Diadeem (the mother of Lancelot)
The daughters we have from here are Dakota (by Indoctro) and Edelvrouw II (by Numero uno)
This year we had a young Corland ( Frappant)
He is sold and Lavendel is in foal now from Zirocco blue VDL (by Mr Blue)
For pictures of them all and other children of Lavendel you can look in my profile.

**Geplaatst door de TopicStarter** : 03-11-10 11:21

Geplaatst door de TopicStarter : 03-11-10 11:21

eilander schreef:
Bill, I can't see your facebook.

try this link, the foal is by Lancelot, and there are a few of Lancelot jumping also with a young rider, daughter of the stud owner. He is the same owner that has KEC Maximum Joe with Willem Greve
http://gallery.me.com/redbeetle4403#100015

eilander schreef:
She is a daughter of Edelvrouw (By nimmerdor) wich is a daughter from Passe and a full sister of Diadeem (the mother of Lancelot)
The daughters we have from here are Dakota (by Indoctro) and Edelvrouw II (by Numero uno)
This year we had a young Corland ( Frappant)
He is sold and Lavendel is in foal now from Zirocco blue VDL (by Mr Blue)
For pictures of them all and other children of Lavendel you can look in my profile.

Very nice pictures in your profile. You must be very pleased with that breeding?

**Geplaatst**: 03-11-10 13:58

Re: Lancelot (Voltaire x Nimmerdor) as a damsire

Geplaatst: 03-11-10 13:58

I think your foal is a typical Lancelot for so far I can see from a picture.
From wich father is the mother of your Lancelot?

I am very pleased with the offspring of Lavendel.
They are all nice looking and they are doing very well in sport.
I hope to get a fine breeding mare of one of them in future.
Now they are still one and two years old so we have to wait for a year or two.

**Geplaatst door de TopicStarter** : 03-11-10 16:18

Geplaatst door de TopicStarter : 03-11-10 16:18

Yes, the foal seems typical in body type, colour, paces, and as others say she seems friendly but dominant.

The reason I would consider breeding her in time is that she is an improver to the mother, which is why I ask about lancelot as damsire! Her mother is untried TB, imported from USA by another to race over jumps, but they had problems, so I bred her.

Can you link to some of Lavendel which are competing?

You are very lucky that from all the hard work over the years you have a very good database and knowledge/results to consult and track breeding traits and merits. In Ireland we are soon to adopt the KWPN method for stallion inspections (about time!) However the dams need to be better assessed (like my own, not a perfect jumper, but brings blood, type, stamina, so all is not lost, maybe eventer!!!) Also the breeders need to be more educated, and teach to analyse results of good stock, and what suits there mare. The BIGGEST problem here is people breeding from completely inadequate stock, coupled with bad production.

We bred badly, so now we have had to look at importing improver stallions and mares, much like all mainland continental europe going back 30-50 years ago importing Irish blood horses. The resulting offspring are classified as Irish!

For instance the horse that won Lanaken for us this year is actually by Aldatus Z (OLD) who stands in Ireland, out of a typical old breed line of Irish mares. Unfortunately what we are using as upper end irish bred showjumpers here, get sold on to event, and our top level Irish riders need non Irish bred horses to compete on the international stage.

I think it will take another 2/3 generations before we see Irish bred horses come to international standings again (so, including production, at least 15 years by my reckoning, however we have one generation done, where some of our mares are now sired by non Irish bred, more talented progenitors)

A long post, I know!

**Geplaatst**: 05-11-10 14:28

Geplaatst: 05-11-10 14:28

First foal of my breedingmare is a Lancelot. He has been succesfull in eventingsports and started several times cic 2* and cic 3*: Rovigno 2. Photo of him is in my profile. And I know Geoff Billington rides a international jumper gelding by Lancelot: Rosinus, I have seen them in Rotterdam 2009.

**Geplaatst door de TopicStarter** : 05-11-10 17:03

Geplaatst door de TopicStarter : 05-11-10 17:03

kitbits schreef:
Geoff Billington rides a international jumper gelding by Lancelot: Rosinus, I have seen them in Rotterdam 2009.

Very true, I have seen Rosinus in action too, and he has many more in action now at higher level sport. I have yet to see him as a damsire though

**Geplaatst**: 06-11-10 20:45

Re: Lancelot (Voltaire x Nimmerdor) as a damsire

Geplaatst: 06-11-10 20:45

Ok, but the offspring has a lot of sport potential allthought they are late bloomers (Same as the offsping of Voltaire). As a damsire it is harder to speculate. I think Lancelot passes a lot of blood to his descendants. He didn't really enlarge measurements allthought he was more expected to do so.

**Geplaatst**: 08-11-10 11:34

Geplaatst: 08-11-10 11:34

Citaat:
A long post, I know!

My english is not so good so it takes a lot of time to read yor posts!

Excuses for that.

**Geplaatst**: 08-11-10 11:39

Re: Lancelot (Voltaire x Nimmerdor) as a damsire

Geplaatst: 08-11-10 11:39

I think Kitbits is right with her post.
In character the young Lancelots have enouth blood but in their body they can have some more maybe.
You need a mare that is not too small like Kitbits is saying.

**Geplaatst**: 08-11-10 11:46

Geplaatst: 08-11-10 11:46

This is Zirkonia (by Sam R) a half sister of Lancelot.
She was 10 th of the Netherlands on the NMK

Afbeelding

]http://www.melissen.nl/orig/070817-Zirkonia05.jpg

**Geplaatst**: 08-11-10 11:51

Geplaatst: 08-11-10 11:51

This is Wild Lady.(Casco x Calvin Z X Goodwill x Nimmerdor x Erdball xx)
A granddaughter of our mare Lavendel.

**Geplaatst door de TopicStarter** : 09-11-10 17:46

Geplaatst door de TopicStarter : 09-11-10 17:46

dank u allen zo veel!