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Hypofocus schreef:

Toen werd 't stil

Hypofocus schreef:

Toen werd 't stil

Huertecilla schreef:

Het MAXimum is 100....

HC

Huertecilla schreef:

Zeg 75 kilo + 10 + 8 = 93
Gedeeld door maximaal 500
Gemiddelde druk 186 gram per cm²
Het MAXimum is 100....

Citaat:

When it comes to saddles, design and materials only play a small part
in the saddle's ability to distribute weight. People think, rightly
or wrongly, that the larger the bearing surface, the better the
weight distribution but this is not necessarily the case, especially
with treeless saddles because flexibility does not distribute weight
in the same way as rigidity. The important factor and what should be
focused on first and foremost is that the saddle offers little or no
restriction to the horse and this is one of the major benefits of
treeless over treed, no matter the make or style.

If for instance, a treed saddle that had large wide weight bearing
panels that covered a larger area of the horse's back did not follow
the contours of the back and was not wide enough through the front of
the tree to allow full movement and unrestricted rotation of the
shoulders, the weight distribution ratio would not be even and a
large percentage would be carried on the trapeziums either side of the
withers and not much more. As it is with even the best fitting
saddles, there is more weight carried forward than to the rear and
this is a combination of design features of ours and the horse's
body, the way we have to ride them, the design of the saddle and how
the stirrups and girthing are rigged. Just having a tree does not
automatically mean our weight is better distributed and more often
than not, the weight distribution can be worse.

What really needs to be addressed is not that the weight is
constantly being distributed evenly throughout that saddle's panels,
but that the pressures from weight can fluctuate and be constantly on
the move so that no area of the horse's back is under continual
pressure. This is where treeless has the benefit over treed due to
the flexibility but then relies a little more on the rider's ability
to be aware of their position and how they distribute their own
weight. The weight of the rider may be a factor but it isn't
necessarily the most important. I've seen heavy weight riders who
can ride lightly and more balanced than some of their much
lighter weight counterparts.

Maybe not all but certainly most horses are happy to be ridden
bareback and certainly some prefer this to being ridden in a treed
saddle. When we ride bareback, the only area we have to distribute
our weight is our bum cheeks and upper-inner thigh so this is one
time when those of us with "20% extra free" can be of benefit! If you
think about it, mankind and horses managed very well this way for a
few thousand years until someone decided they needed to put a forked
wooden block on their horses backs. Now when riding bareback, there
is no rigid interface between horse and rider leaving two soft and
flexible entities working together . This means your body is
constantly making small adjustments to move "with" the horse and
therefore keeping the pressures from weight constantly moving and to
some degree this is how it works with treeless. What really makes
things difficult is our need for stirrups and this is where materials
and design play a part but the biggest part needs to be played by the
rider in ensuring that the stirrups are used as a balancing aid to
rest ones feet in rather than a strut to support them.

When it comes down to it, do your research but above all ask your
horse's opinion because the most up-to-date technical designs and the
most expensive materials will mean diddly squat to the horse because
they will know when they're comfortable.

Citaat:

Wanneer het over zadels komt, het ontwerp en de materialen slechts een kleine rol in de capaciteit van het zadel spelen om gewicht te verdelen. De mensen denken, terecht of verkeerd, dat groter de lageroppervlakte, beter de gewichtsdistributie maar dit niet noodzakelijk het geval is, vooral met treeless zadels omdat de flexibiliteit geen gewicht op dezelfde manier als starheid verdeelt. De belangrijke factor en wat vooral zou moeten worden geconcentreerd op is dat het zadel weinig of geen beperking aan het paard aanbiedt en dit één van de belangrijkste voordelen van treeless over treed, geen kwestie het merk of stijl is. Als, a bijvoorbeeld zadel treed dat groot had volgden de brede gewichts dragende panelen die een groter gebied van de rug behandelden van het paard niet de contouren van de rug en waren niet wijd genoeg door de voorzijde van de boom om volledige beweging en onbeperkte omwenteling van de schouders toe te staan, zou de verhouding van de gewichtsdistributie niet zelfs zijn en een groot percentage op de trapeziums één van beide kant van de schoften worden gedragen en niet veel meer. Aangezien het met zelfs de beste montagezadels is, is er meer gewicht voortgezet dan aan het achtergedeelte en dit is een combinatie ontwerpeigenschappen van van ons en het lichaam van het paard, de manier wij hen moeten berijden, het ontwerp van het zadel en hoe de stijgbeugels en het girthing worden gemonteerd. Enkel betekent het hebben van een boom niet automatisch ons gewicht beter wordt verdeeld en vaker wel dan niet, de gewichtsdistributie slechter kan zijn. Wat werkelijk moet worden gericht is niet dat het gewicht constant gelijk door de panelen van dat zadel wordt verdeeld, maar dat de druk van gewicht en zijn constant op de beweging kan schommelen zo dat geen gebied van de rug van het paard onder voortdurende druk is. Dit is waar treeless het voordeel dan zich treed meer over wegens de flexibiliteit maar baseert een weinig op de capaciteit van de ruiter zich van hun positie heeft bewust te zijn en hoe zij hun eigen gewicht verdelen. Het gewicht van de ruiter kan een factor zijn maar het is niet noodzakelijk het belangrijkst. Ik heb zware gewichtsruiters gezien die licht en evenwichtiger kunnen berijden dan sommige van hun veel lichtere gewichtstegenhangers. Misschien niet alle maar zeker zijn de meeste paarden gelukkig om bareback worden bereden en zeker verkiezen sommigen dit aan wordt bereden in a zadel treed. Wanneer wij bareback berijden, is het enige gebied wij ons gewicht moeten verdelen onze bum wangen en hoger-binnendij zo dit één keer is wanneer die van ons met "20% extra vrij" van voordeel kunnen zijn! Als u over het denkt, beheerden de mensheid en de paarden zeer goed deze manier een paar duizend jaar tot iemand besliste zij een vertakt houten blok op hun paardenruggen moesten zetten. Nu wanneer bareback, is er het berijden geen stijve interface tussen paard en ruiter die twee zachte en flexibele entiteiten verlaten samenwerkend. Dit betekent uw lichaam constant kleine aanpassingen maakt zich "met" het paard te bewegen en daarom houdt de druk van gewicht dat zich constant beweegt en aan één of andere graad zo het met treeless werkt. Wat werkelijk dingen moeilijk maakt is onze behoefte aan stijgbeugels en dit is waar de materialen en het ontwerp een rol spelen maar de grootste rol moet door de ruiter worden gespeeld in het ervoor zorgen dat de stijgbeugels als in evenwicht brengende hulp aan rust degenenvoeten binnen eerder dan een stut worden gebruikt om hen te steunen. Wanneer het neer over het komt, doe vooral uw onderzoek maar vraag het advies van uw paard omdat de meest bijgewerkte technische ontwerpen en de duurste materialen diddly hurkzit aan het paard zullen betekenen omdat zij zullen weten wanneer zij comfortabel zijn.

Citaat:

The weight of the rider may be a factor but it isn't
necessarily the most important. I've seen heavy weight riders who
can ride lightly and more balanced than some of their much
lighter weight counterparts.

MysticTinker schreef:

Hier ben ik het helemaal mee eens:

Citaat:

The weight of the rider may be a factor but it isn't
necessarily the most important. I've seen heavy weight riders who
can ride lightly and more balanced than some of their much
lighter weight counterparts.

Citaat:

Rising to the trot without stirrups is an exercise I think everyone
should be taught. Apart from giving the thighs an amazing workout,
it shows the rider how little they need to "rise" in order to keep
with the movement. This is one big problem I find with many and
again, treed saddles don't help. The main problem is stirrup
position that is set too forward and causes an over-active rise &
fall to the trot.

When it comes to English style treed saddles, the majority of them
have the stirrup bar placed too far forward. Part of this is due to
the design and manufacturing process as the stirrup bars are attached
at the junction of the tree points and tree bars. According to
saddlers this is because it's the strongest section of the tree. The
other reason I think though is because 100+ years ago, men
predominantly rode and if women did, they rode side-saddle. Even
more so though, saddlers were men so of course most English saddles
(and maybe many other types) were made for men. Apart from the
hunting style "chair" seat that was favoured then (presumably so the
gent could protect his crown jewels or for the common man, his meat
and two veg!) men naturally have larger feet so the relative distance
between the ball of the foot where it sits in a stirrup and the line
of the hips is much greater than in women. This distance is what
affects our riding position and whether we are able to sit in correct
shoulder-hip-heel alignment which of course for many, it's an aspect
we struggle with.

Once again, this seems to be where treeless saddles win out because
all of them seem to have addressed the problem of the stirrup
attachment position and they all seem to be set much further back.
Once a rider is given a saddle with the stirrup alignment set
correctly for them, it is like a breath of fresh air and their riding
position takes on an immediate improvement. Once your feet are placed
beneath you rather than out in front, the rising trot becomes much
easier with less effort for the rider and much less stress on the
horse because less pressures are created over the back. Your feet
feel like they are just resting in the stirrups (if you don't ride
too short) and you can use your body much more effectively in the
rise and fall of trot. With the stirrups too far forward, you either
have to get the horse to move with sufficient impulsion to "throw"
you forward out of your seat or you feel as though you are hauling
yourself up with a push on the stirrups and either way you end up
with tilting your torso forward and the "swinging leg" syndrome.

I had a bareback pad with stirrups that I bought to back my youngster
with (which prompted me to go treeless). Once again they were set
too forward and I moved them back and down the side flaps on a "Y"
system so I could utilise as much area of the pad as possible for
weight distribution due to it being floppy despite its density. It
worked this way very well and gave me some stability on my youngster
although I didn't favour the restriction of the lower position of
stirrup attachment. That said, stirrups and bareback pads are not a
combination I'd recommend for real riding as there is not enough
structure in a bareback pad to absorb the pressures created via the
use of stirrups but for lightly backing a horse or just having a
quick jog round, it's a good thing. There are some bareback pads I
would not entertain for adding stirrups too as some are no thicker
than a regular cotton numnah.

The differences between all bareback pads and treeless is the density
of materials and the increased structure & shaping of a saddle to
give much more rider support and stability. This is therefore much
more suited to longer and more active riding, giving the horse more
protection and a better set up if the rider wants or needs to use
stirrups. After all, fitting and suitability aside, it is the use of
stirrups that is the whole crux of saddle related issues.

What people do not realise is that once a rider takes their weight
out of the saddle seat, pressure from stirrups is a problem with
both treed and treeless - it's just the point of pressure that is
different. On a treed saddle, the riders weight is transferred from
beneath the seat to the tree points that sit either side of the
withers and for that moment of rider suspension, the rest of the
saddle tree is not doing anything to distribute the weight and you
can multiply this pressure if the tree is already too tight. With
treeless saddles, the pressures are further back behind the withers
and whilst there isn't the same problem with tree related
tightness/restriction, the most problems arise with unsuitable
numnahs (due to the lack of generous gullet a tree provides that
protects from bulky seams) and for those horses that have high
withers and spines with not a lot of muscle either side to support
the saddle. In both cases, the pressures are a problem if the rider
spends a lot of time in a cross country seat (up and out), they rely
on their stirrups for balance or ride with them too short.

Cars schreef:

Enne ik heb het er maar druk mee gehad..heb zelf mijn paard opgemeten om het tegendeel te bewijzen
Druk in de weer met de rolmaat maar helaas..die weegt ook al niet meer als max 550 kilo(kleine ,dikke tinker= dus ook 500)

Zijn denk ik maar heeeeel weinig volwassen mensen die bepakt en bezakt te paard 50 kilo wegen

vinky schreef:

een boomloos zadel lijkt me wel ideaal als je een jong paard gaat beleren waarvan de spieren nog volop in ontwikkeling zijn.