kataklopje schreef:Uit onderzoeken bij universiteiten is gebleken dat het 'meer gewicht dragen op de achterbenen', onzin is. De houding van een paard verandert als hij wordt verzameld in de dressuur (maakt niet uit of het LDR of klassiek is), hij gaat zitten, buigt zijn gewrichten achter meer en komt in de voorhand verder van de grond, echter, dit doet niets toe aan de daadwerkelijke gewichtsverdeling.
Dit is onder andere onderzocht door een paard te laten piafferen op een weegschaal.
Klopt, dat was gedaan met een duits toppaard - Rusty zou kunnen, maar weet 't ff niet zeker. Edit: nee Rembrandt dus 
Een klassieke trainer in Amerika (Paul Belasik) heeft het experiment met zijn eigen warmbloed aan de Universiteit daar over gedaan. In ZIJN piaffe was wel duidelijk te zien dat er gewicht naar de achterhand werd verplaatst. Verder, toen hij de piaffe liet overgaan in een levade, zag je vloeiend de gewichtsverdeling naar achteren schuiven, tot 100% achter. Dit liet zien dat de levade niet werd bereikt, doordat het paard zich met de voorbenen afzette.
Bovenstaande onderstreept duidelijk het fundamentele verschil tussen de "wedstrijdpiaffe" en de "klassieke piaffe", waarbij de laatste de voorbereiding is op de hogeschool oefeningen.
Op Theresa's site (Sustainable dressage) staat hier dit over:
Theresa Sandin schreef: Lately scientist have tried to prove that collection is indeed not a shift of weight rearwards to be placed more over the hindlegs. This, presumably, because they watch a supposedly collected horse, and correctly observe that it does indeed not take any weight back over the hindlegs to relieve the forelegs. (The most famous of which is the Clayton report based on Rembrandt's performance at the Olympics.) But they do not stop here any say:
"Hey, these horses don't shift weight back. How's that?"
But rather they think that
"Since the riders win competitions where collection is terribly important, the horse must be collected. So then collection must not be shifting the weight back, since they don't shift weight back. So let's find out what collection is. "
This somersault of logic is backed up with forceplates, and electrodes, computers and lab equipment to measure what clearly the naked eye can see - horses doing movements on the forehand. Everything is recorded to the last ounce.
They don't stop and think, hey, maybe our base data is somehow flawed? Maybe Rembrandt wasn't the most collecting horse ever trained to GP, and maybe she won on other merits than collection?
What they forgot is that dressage is a difficult thing. It's not like figure skating, where you can use a camera to see if the girl jumps and revolves around her axis 720 degrees like she claims to, and then etch that into your mind's eye, to be able to tell if other skaters do the same. In dressage, the successful outcome of a movement is usually not based upon measurements. It's measured upon impression. Of course the horse has to do his 720 degrees, if he is doing a double pirouette, but that's the easy part to see. What is harder to see are the qualities that training is supposed to have given the gaits and balance.
For example:
The horse appears to be extending his trot because I can clearly see his forelegs go horizontal with each forward grasp. I'd need slow motion footage to be able to tell that the hindlegs don't cooperate in this at all. Indeed, some would need a video camera to observe the hindlegs at all, if one listens to the commentators on TV.
Regarding the use of electronic equipment to somehow measure the facts of dressage, Dr Clayton has made some advances, lately, with the help of classical trainer/writer Paul Belasik. The following is from a lecture he gave in 2003:
"...He also spoke of his work with Dr. Hilary Clayton with the force plates. She had multiple international Grand Prix horses do piaffe on the force plate, she also had Mr. Belasik do piaffe and levade on the force plate. This measured the force each foot was using to get off the ground. The results she found were that most of the horses punched down with their shoulders to lift the front feet instead of carrying more with the haunches. Mr. Belasik said he was very nervous about what the force plate would show when he did his piaffe, then levade. He said if it showed that the horse pushed himself into the levade with his shoulders, then everything he believed and worked on for 30 years was wrong. The force plate showed, dramatically in the levade, that the horse lifted the front by taking more weight in the back. The piaffe also showed more pressure in the back and a lightening in the front from collected trot to piaffe. Needless to say he was relieved to have been vindicated. So it does show, through scientific research that the ability to do a piaffe, by lowering the haunches and taking more weight behind, is real and do-able. That the horizantal piaffes we see in the ring are a result of the horses pushing against the ground with their shoulders. "
Geplaatst: 25-10-06 11:45 
