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_San87_ schreef:

BigOne schreef:

Reactie van van Olst ;
Van Olst Horses 24 juli 2024 om 17:25
In eerste instantie natuurlijk een drama voor de dressuursport in zijn algemeen , en daarnaast voor alle betrokkenen in het bijzonder .
Positieve van het verhaal is de geweldige internationale “one man show” van mr Stephan Wensing op radio en televisie , en een land dat opschuift in de medaille strijd .
Wat minder leuk is het in het speciaal voor mevr Alicia Dickinson die op de achtergrond lachend deze video opnamen aan het maken is , maar er naar tussen de 4 en 2.5 jaar later een naar gevoel aan over houd en via een Nederlandse (zaken) relatie met mr Wensing contact zoekt om een paar dagen voor de aanvang van de Olympische Spelen alsnog zaken aan de orde te stellen bij de FEI en de Britse Federatie .
Uiteindelijk zeer tragisch en alleen maar verliezers .


Waar je ook wel wat vraagtekens bij kunt zetten gezien de langdurige rechtszaken die van Olst heeft moeten voeren tegen een koopster van een paard , wel gewonnen maar advocaat van tegenpartij was ?? Wensing.

Waar lees je dit statement?

Wel weer een statement die precies laat zien wat er mis is in de paardensport.

Madiba schreef:

prompter schreef:

Oh ja Jessica, ook live goede dingen van gezien. Maar je word wantrouwig...

Ik zag een filmpje van haar los met een paard in de bak. Paard was haar aan het knuffelen. Dat doen ze niet als ze hun ruiter niet vertrouwen. Ik vind ze ook heel vriendelijk rijden; mooie onafhankelijke zit, niet te kort in de hals gereden zoals zovelen, Dalera loopt altijd met haar oortjes naar voren. Ze is minder atletisch dan sommige andere paarden maar dit wordt ruimschoots goedgemaakt door de ontspanning en harmonie.Ik vind Jessica ook heel lief spreken over haar paarden. Voor mij is zij authentiek en een voorbeeld. Als over haar ook dergelijke filmpjes verschijnen dan val ik van mijn stoel.

swatch schreef:

Heeft wel impact. Naast sponsoren ook het paard Quinn voor de wereldkampioenschappen jonge paarden kwijt. Mogelijk zullen meer eigenaren volgen.
Denk dat Carl Hester haar actie afkeurt, maar hoop ergens dat hij haar niet helemaal laat vallen.
In deze situatie waarin de hele wereld jou al veroordeeld heeft, kun je wel een vriend gebruiken.
Het gedrag jegens het paard keur ik af, maar dit is een hetze aan het worden die groter is dan eerdere en m.i. ergere misstanden zoals bij Parra.
(Waarbij ik hoop dat ze zichzelf niets aandoet of op andere wijze haar iets overkomt)

nikkel schreef:

Nee joh, als ze willen dat je iets niet ziet gooien ze alle deuren dicht zodat er niemand kàn kijken. Dat gebeurde vroeger al en gebeurt volgens mij nog steeds. Je denkt toch niet dat bijv een helgestrand dit nog eens gaat meemaken. (Het gefilmd worden). Het gedrag verandert niet.

Elisa2 schreef:

Wie zegt dat dat niet bestaat? Ik ben het niet met die stelling eens hoor.

Lukasje schreef:

Wat vinden jullie van de video waarvan nu wel een fragment te zien is ?

Lukasje schreef:

Wat vinden jullie van de video waarvan nu wel een fragment te zien is ?

xLoki schreef:

Een natural horsemanship goeroe die mij vaker erg aanspreekt, Lockie Philips, heeft naar mijn mening een hele sterke analyse gedaan op wat er nu gebeurt rondom Charlotte. Hij vat in mijn ogen goed de effecten samen van wat er nu gebeurt door de reacties op dit filmpje, en hoe dit hele negatieve gevolgen heeft voor de hele sector. Hij wuift hierbij niet weg hoe walgelijk het handelen van Charlotte is, maar hij plaatst het in een bredere context, waarmee hij vooral aanstipt dat dit een veel groter probleem is dan alleen zij, en dat de reacties waarbij zij nu compleet gecanceld wordt niet bijdragen aan het verbeteren van paardenwelzijn.

So, when Charlotte (Dujardin) was in London 2012 Olympics with Valegro, she got my attention. Because Valegro was the first competitive dressage horse I personally saw in recent memory, in recent records, compete and win without an abundance of overtly obvious calming signals and signs of stress. Valegro did show stress, lots and lots of it. But in an environment to his left and right, horses showed stressx100000, and he showed stressx100, he appeared relaxed by comparison. Not relaxed according to what I prefer and try to practice. Putting myself in the shoes of an other, I saw an exception in Charlotte then. I do not see an exception in her now.

So she got my attention.

In subsequent years, when Valegro (Blueberry) retired and I saw her riding of other horses, it became clear to me that Valegro might have been an exceptional animal and an anomaly, and then digging a little deeper into personal research, I tried to find quotes from Charlotte herself talking about her champion horse.

A person always tells you exactly who they are, if we believe them.

I heard a rumor, that Charlotte described Valegro as "Hard Mouthed". I am not sure if that is true. Because much of their press is glossy and idolised. Like this article, still on the FEI website, attributing Charlotte and Valegro to inspiring a whole new generation of dressage riders. https://www.fei.org/stories/sport/dress ... in-valegro

So if a Gold Medallist is describing her champion horse as Hard Mouthed, what does this mean for the training process that horse went through when nobody was watching? I guessed, wildly speculated for myself, that Valegro might be a horse who tolerated more pressure, than perhaps other horses would. Perhaps a horse who was predisposed to working under an enormous amount of compression, without feeling emotionally off-kilter about it. And was therefore able to demonstrate high level competitive riding with her, without an abundance of signs of stress (not no stress at all, just drastically less than is typically seen in those contexts). And actually win. Valegro actually looked... sort of happy... with her. By comparison to the horses around them.

But in subsequent years watching her ride Pumpkin and others, I personally did not like what I saw. I saw too much of the modern, Continental Euro-Dressage culture in the horses body. I felt quietly she needed to listen more to Carl Hester, and less to the Continental Hyper-Mobile style that is so rewarded now across the board.

So in recent years I waned my interest in Charlotte, after initially feeling pleasantly surprised at how much I found an affiliate image in her public body of work that I felt I could... maybe, just maybe, enjoy watching and supporting.

Charlotte is currently under-going the effects of Cancel Culture. Cancel Culture is something I would like to cancel. Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water. Here is a competitor who demonstrated at the Olympics that once in a blue moon, 1 horse in a million could compete -and win-with a drastically minimised output of overt signs of stress. Charlotte showed that to us. She also popularised and brought into fashion the era of helmets in competitive riding. Before that, it was all tuxedo's and top hats. And now helmets are popular and normalised at upper levels. She was the first to really popularise that. She, together with Carl, also used her enormous platform to advocate for the ample turn out of their horses. They even hack their top horses on country roads. At a time when some competitors horses never saw light of day, or had a chance to roll in a field, or play with their buddies, this person was returning from world championships, and instead of posting a photo of her ribbons and trophies, would post of video of turning the champion horse out in a field with their buddies.

And then we see a video of her abusing a horse with a whip. In my opinion, the video is egregious. Her actions in the video are horrific. They appear well practiced. They appear to be perfunctory, like she had done them before. There is NO EXCUSE for what she did. It is bonafide abuse.

But there are explanations why. And understanding WHY is crucial for us right now if we are to avoid the pitfall before us. The pitfall of making camps on the left and right, while we hurl abuse at each other. Let us have enough self restraint to pump the breaks on our outrage, and understand why. We must, if we are to use this moment as a crucial turning point in the development of horse welfare.

I have made mistakes with horses. So have you, yes you. I have done things with horses out of frustration. So have you. Nobody is immune to that. All of us have sinned. But I have never whipped a horse like was shown in the surfaced video. I have never done that. To the laughter of those filming? Sickening. And the inaction of the rider. And the entitlement of Charlotte.

And yet, I do not agree that now is the time to cancel Charlotte.

It would not occur to me to blame the victim. The timing is perhaps suspect to speculation. But perhaps the timing has nothing to do with it. I know what it is like to wait years, 10 years in fact, to blow the whistle on my abusers. I have abusers who I am still waiting for the right time to blow my whistle on them. Now is not the time. I waited for a time when the groundswell of support was such that I could blow the whistle and not stand alone. Perhaps Charlottes whistle blower waited until they had enough support around them, so they COULD be brave. I do not know. But we must not make this about the whistleblower that is the lowest hanging fruit here today.

Let us make this about WHY the top competitor in our industry, so completely failed. Why we cannot sanction almost any competitive riding in 2024 through an ethics lens? And why we need to stop cancelling peoples mistakes, and instead learn from them. So we never-ever- repeat them.

Two things can be true at the same time.

Someone can be abusing horses. And in the same breathe, make great choices for them. It is the human-problem. We have a heavy, clever, abstract brain that needs another 50 millions years of evolution to refine this new bio-computer and de-bug some of its glitches. The human brains most common glitch in my opinion, is the glitch of incongruence. Say one thing. Do one thing. Next minute contradict that entirely. It is almost like somebody left the paddock gate open in the human psyche and all the horses got out. Running chaos across the road. It is the reason why we so wholly engage in acts of abuse, torture, murder and systematic annihilation of others. Just like cancel culture is the annihilation of others we abhor, the same way abusive horse training is the annihilation of the horses well-being in real time. Be careful, outraged or not we may be, be careful to track the threads of aggression and hostility through our bodies, lest we make hypocrites of ourselves.

To use hostility and aggression and lack of listening to others and lack of compassion of others to cancel another, is the same human trait of lack of listening, hostility, aggression and lack of compassion shown to the horse in Charlotte's scandal. To weaponise the same weapons of the person we cancel... is by definition incongruent. The best way to no longer sanction the sort of abuse Charlotte engaged in, is to eliminate those same urgings from ourselves... wherever they show up. Yes- even when directed at Charlotte.

The human brains most common glitch in my opinion, is the glitch of incongruence. Our brains have not fully re-connected recent complex brain developments into our body, our ancient wisdoms, our empathy and our kindness.

I mean, we can. But it takes a Herculean effort to do so. In order to live a congruent life, one must be actively anti-social to the mainstream. Because mainstream living requires incongruence to fit in, survive and be successful.

Charlotte, like tens of thousands of top equine professionals, is part of this problem. Stuck in a system where she must force performance, force compliance, by any egregious means necessary, so that she can maintain her safety, her success, her image and her acceptance. Imagine being an Olympic Gold Medallist, training someone elses "lesser" horse, and the horse is not doing it the way your Valegro did it for you. Imagine doing that in front of an audience.

"I saw Charlotte at a clinic and actually, she couldn't get the results. It must be Valegro, not her"

Such nasty phrases are common place and directed everyday to all trainers, everywhere. Trainers are under enormous pressures to prove not only competency, but competency RIGHT NOW, and the means necessary are not important. This is a dynamic I work hard everyday to counter. It is so hard to do.

If we cancel Charlotte now we risk the following
1. Not learning from this. WHY did the TOP COMPETITOR in that industry still fail at horse ethics 101. If she is failing, we all are.
2. We risk covering up the positive impact she did make towards helmet culture, turn out culture and showcasing, 12 years ago, a relaxed horse. Even if he was one in a million. She still showcased that.
3. We lose an opportunity to understand the popular culture of training and how we need to double our efforts to reform it.

We actually need new parameters of competency. New parameters of success. We don't need to cancel Charlotte. She will get what is coming for her.

Cancel Culture in my opinion is the epitome of a diversion tactic. It is also hostile, and aggressive. And eye for an eye and we are all blind. Someone grappling with their own conscience in what they did or are currently doing to horses, can redirect their internal turmoil onto another and heap their own self loathing onto a scapegoat. They get an adrenal hit out of it. They feel better about themselves. The Germans call it "Schadenfreude" direct translation is Crappyfriend, or happiness at the misfortune of others. It is a toxic trait in my opinion to cancel an other.

We cannot talk a storyline of holding space for misbehaving horses, for troubled horses, if we cannot hold space for misbehaving and troubled people.

I see someone like Charlotte whipping a horse the way she did and I want to throw up, but I also acknowledge how troubled she must be. Troubled and damaged, before, during and after the abuse. not an excuse, I hold no sympathy for her. But damn, how damaged must someone be, to do what she did. How damaged must someone be to believe they can cancel another. Deny their existence, like a death. The same way horses are denied their existence.

Be careful, outraged or not, to track aggression patterns through our bodies and stop them in their tracks.

I have been saying for months:
"oliebol is going to hit the fan this Olympics. We need to be ready to catch the people who are abandoning ship"

Olympics hasn't even started yet, and here we are. oliebol-fan-ship.

Elisa2 schreef:

Ik denk wel dat filmen helpt, zelf meegemaakt dat ik een ander aan het filmen was en er iemand bij reed die niet bepaald lief was voor het paard. Die ging dus wel iedere keer stappen aan een lange teugel als ik filmde. Bij Helgstrand hangen nu ook camera's in de bak en dat zou op iedere stal wel een goede optie zijn. Natuurlijk zijn er viespeuken die dat weten te omzeilen, maar in ieder geval maakt het mensen bewuster dat ze iets doen wat niet goedgekeurd wordt en dat als dat naar buiten komt dat ze hun imago kwijt zijn en daarmee ook hun inkomen in het geval van profs.

Popstra:
Dat is niet wat ik bedoelde, bedoelde dat er ruiters/ amazones zijn die wel gewoon fijn opleiden en presteren. Zonder, ruk, pluk, schop etc. etc.

xLoki schreef:

*Knip*

Elisa2 schreef:

Popstra:
Oh zo, ja dat klopt..er zijn er niet voor niets maar een handjevol die GP gaan lopen uiteindelijk. Inderdaad het mentale gedeelte plus gezondheid zijn daarbij het belangrijkste. Ik denk soms ook wel..en dat heb ik wel vaker gedacht. Waarom doen we allemaal niet wat meer wat het paard leuk vindt ipv dat deze altijd maar moet doen wat wij leuk vinden? Zo'n flegmatieke zoals in deze video, waarom niet gewoon lekker meenemen het bos in en rijdt hem daar eens wat naar voren en terug. Vinden ze vaak veel leuker waardoor er automatisch al meer looplust is.