Babootje schreef:Daphara schreef:De vergelijken met Epstein is imo alleen gebaseerd op fantasie en speculatie, niet te onderbouwen door een fractie van bewijs.
Wat bedoel je daarmee? Ik zeg toch niet dat Epstein iets te maken heeft met de verdwijning van Madeleine?
Tegen Epstein zelf was meer dan genoeg bewijs. Genoeg om zichzelf van kant te maken dan wel te worden vermoord uit angst dat hij zn mond zou opendoen over diverse prominente en hoog geplaatste mensen (waaronder ex presidenten Clinton en Trump en prins Andrew) die vaak bij hem te gast waren. Meevlogen in zijn Lolita express of op zijn eiland waren, dat onderdeel was van de maagdeneilanden (heel toepasselijk). Diverse getuigenissen van minderjarige meisjes en jonge vrouwen die daar verhandeld, verkracht, seksueel misbruikt en gevangengehouden werden. Maxwell de jarenlange partner van Epstein ontkent dit allemaal niet, maar probeert haar eigen rol daarin wel te minimaliseren.
Ik haalde Epstein aan aan om te laten zien dat tot in de hoogste kringen dit misbruik door kon gaan zonder dat er een haan naar kraaide, zelfs nadat Epstein eerder al eens veroordeeld was voor een zedenmisdrijf.
Voor de verdenking van kindermisbruik tegen de McCanns zijn er natuurlijk nog de verklaringen van de maatchappelijk werkster, de Gaspars (destijds vrienden van de McCanns die eerder met hen op vakantie waren en getuige waren van gesprekken en gebaren die op kindermisbruik wezen), wat discutabele vakantie foto's (kinderen op schoot bij David). Er is niets dat erop wijst dat deze verklaringen uberhaupt zijn onderzocht.
Daphara schreef:Er is wel degelijk onderzoek gedaan naar de verklaring van de maatschappelijk werkster. Feitelijk was haar verklaring dat ze dacht hem ergens van te kennen, misschien door één van haar zaken of de zaken die door haar bureau behandeld waren, maar dat wist ze niet zeker. Dat is allemaal onderzocht en geen enkele link gevonden.
Nee haar verklaringen zijn niet verder onderzocht. Inspector Fereira ( opvolger van Amaral) vond dat niet nodig
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/YVON ... MARTIN.htm
Als je andere bewijzen hebt dat het wel is onderzocht, be my guest.
Daphara schreef:De verklaringen van de Gaspars verschillen ook. De vrouw vond David een viezerd en de man zag de opmerking als ongepast, maar zag er verder geen kwade opzet in en beschouwde David nog steeds als een vriend. Lees beide verklaringen maar door, de man heeft nooit aangegeven enig probleem met David te hebben.
De verklaringen van de Gaspars verschilden inderdaad van elkaar maar dat is niet ongewoon.
Katharina was een vrouw. Savio een man. Een moeder heeft meestal toch een extra antenne als het om haar kind gaat.
Wat ook verschilde was de positie waar beide zaten. Katharine verklaart dat ze tussen Dave en Gerry in zat.
Savio zegt dat ze met zn allen rond de tafel zaten. Waar hij precies zat is niet helemaal duidelijk uit de verklaring. Hij heeft dezelfde gebaren die Katharine had gezien ook gezien (vond ze ongepast) maar heeft de context waarin ze werden gemaakt niet meegekregen. Zijn vrouw wel en alhoewel ze het gesprek niet helemaal kon reproduceren was zij er redelijk zeker van dat het om Madeleine ging. Ze was geschokt. Ze heeft het er verder in die vakantie niet over gehad. Ik kan me dat zo voorstellen, want je twijfelt in zo'n situatie ook echt aan jezelf.
Het was ook de gewoonte dat de mannen de kinderen in bad deden voor het slapen. Nadat ze dit gehoord en gezien had zorgde ze ervoor dat haar kind nooit alleen was met Dave.
Toen ze hoorden dat Madeleine verdwenen was hebben de Gaspars toch gemeend hun ervaring te moeten delen met de politie.
De verklaring van de Gaspars op zich is natuurlijk lastig nader te onderzoeken. Behalve dat haar man ook had gezien dat Dave ongepast gedrag vertoonde is er geen bewijs. Maar in combinatie met de verklaring van Yvonne Martin is het heel heel raar dat er geen diepgaand onderzoek is gedaan naar de achtergrond van David Payne.
Verklaring van Katharina Gaspar
[i]One night, when we were on holiday, the adults, in other words, the couples that I mentioned were on a patio outside the house where we were staying. We had been eating and drinking.
I was sitting between Dave and Gerry whom I believe were both talking about Madeleine. I don't remember the conversation in its entirety, but it seemed they were discussing a possible scenario. I remember Dave telling Gerry something like ?she?, referring to Madeleine, ?would do this?.
When he mentioned ?this?, Dave was sucking on one of his fingers, pushing it in and out of his mouth, whilst with the other hand he circled his nipple, with a circulating movement over his clothes. This was done in a provocative manner there being an explicit insinuation in relation to what he was saying and doing.
I remember that I was shocked at this, and looked at Gerry, and also at Dave, to see their reactions. I looked around (page 4) to see ?did anyone else hear this, or was it just me?. There was a nervous silence noted in the conversations of all the others and immediately afterwards everyone began talking again.
I never spoke to anyone about this, but I always felt that it was something very strange and that it wasn't something that should be done or said.
Apart from this, I remember that Dave did the same thing once again. When I refer to this, I want to mention again that it was during a conversation, in which he was talking about an imaginary situation, though I could not say precisely what it was about. I believe that he was talking about his own daughter, L., though I'm not certain. He slid one of his fingers in and out of his mouth, while the other hand drew a circle around his nipple in a provocative and sexual manner. I believe that he was referring to the way that L., would behave or would do it.
I believe that he did this later on, during the holidays, but I cannot be sure. The only time, besides this one, that I was with Dave and Fiona was several weeks after the holidays, when Savio and I met up with Gerry, Kate, Dave and Fiona at a restaurant in Leicester.
I am absolutely certain that he said what he said and that he made the gestures I referred to, but that could have occurred in the restaurant in Leicester, even though (page five) I believe that it was later on, in Majorca. When I heard Dave saying and doing this a second time, I took it more seriously.
I remember thinking whether he looked at the girls in a different way from me or from the others. I imagined that maybe he had visited Internet sites related to small children. In short, I thought that he might be interested in child pornography on the internet.
During our holidays, I was more attentive at the bath times after hearing Dave saying that.
During our holidays in Majorca, it was the fathers who took care of the children baths. I had the tendency to walk close to the bathroom, if it was Dave bathing the children. I remember telling Savio to took care to be there, in case it was Dave helping to bathe the children and, in particular, my daughter E. I was very clear about this, as having heard him say that had disturbed me, and I did not trust him to give bath to E. alone.
[i]When I heard Dave say that a second time, it reinforced what I already thought in relation to his thoughts about girls. During our stay in Majorca, Dave and his wife, Fiona, accompanied by their daughter L., took Madeleine (page 6) with them to spend the day, in order to give Kate and Gerry a bit of rest and time to be with the twins. When I say this, it is not that I was worried about Madeleine's safety, since she was also with Fiona and L., and also with Dave, as far as I know.
As I have already mentioned, I was only with Dave and Fiona on one occasion, after Majorca, and I have not spoken to them since then. In the last two years, we have met, as a family, with the MCCANN, every now and then. This mainly happens on the children's birthdays, a time when we meet up.
The first time I heard of the terrible news about Madeleine's disappearance through the radio, my thoughts went immediately to Dave. I asked Savio if Dave was also on holidays with the MCCANN in Portugal but he did not know.
I watched the TV thoroughly, and seeing the news coverage, I noticed that Dave was there, because I saw him, in the background, on the television images during the first days after Madeleine?s disappearance. Based upon that, I believed that he was on holidays with the MCCANN in Portugal.
Today, Wednesday, 16th of May of 2007, at 17:40, I gave DC Brewer an A4 page containing 2 photographic images. I am going to refer to these images as (Ref KZG/1) (element of proof) that may (page seven) be presented as means of proof, if necessary. These photographs were taken during the holidays in Majorca. In the photographs, Dave is wearing a white T-shirt and the woman in the photograph corresponds to his wife Fiona. The man who is holding the glass of wine in the photograph is Stuart. These photographs were taken while we were in Majorca.
Verklaring Savio Gaspar.
During the period we stayed at the villa I remember a gesture made by David Payne.
I do not remember the context of the conversation between David and Gerry, but I do remember seeing David use his left index finger to rub his nipple, using circular movements, whilst he put his right index finger into his mouth, touching his tongue. This happened during a meal, at the end of the day in the villa, I do not remember the time or the date, but we would usually dine between 19.30 and 21.00 every day. I think this happened in the middle of the holiday.
I remember that when I saw this gesture I immediately thought it to be in very bad taste, independently of the context of the conversation they were having. We were sitting around a white plastic table in the villa. I don't know if anyone else saw the gesture, apart from my wife Katherina. After this gesture, we did not notice any others and as far as I know, the gesture was not repeated.
We never commented on this gesture during the rest of the holiday and I thought no more about it.
I can describe Dave as a Caucasian male 1.78 m tall, and of a medium complexion. He had brown hair and used glasses/contact lenses depending on the circumstances.
I can say that Dave was a pleasant person. I do not remember him having any unusual characteristics.
During the holidays Dave never behaved in an inappropriate manner with Madeleine or with any of the other children. Dave was popular with the children and I took this to be because he was a close friend to the family.
I never distrusted Dave. After the holidays there was one occasion when we were with Kate and Gerry and Fiona and Dave were also present.
That was in a restaurant in Leicester in 2005. I do not remember the name of the restaurant.
We had a pleasant evening, just the three couples without the children.
I do not remember Dave having behaved inappropriately on this occasion. We have not spoken to Dave or Fiona since December 2005, only due to their being friends of Kate and Gerry, not for any other reason.
The last time I saw Kate, Gerry, Madeleine, Sean and Amelie was in March 2007 when they came to our house for the first birthday celebration of my daughter *****. On the morning of 4th May Katherine saw the news about Madeleine on television. We were very shocked and worried given that they were close friends.
It was during the days following the news of the abduction that we discovered that Fiona and David Payne were also with them in Portugal.
It was at this moment that Katherina showed concern at the gesture made by Dave in Majorca in 2005. Katherina remembered that when Dave made the gesture he was referring to Madeleine.
I only remember that Katherina saw the gesture at the time, I had forgotten the episode, it was never the subject of conversation.
At the time I did not feel the gesture was referring to Madeleine.
Daphara schreef:Er zijn geen ongepaste kinder foto’s gevonden, alleen foto’s van een Maddie die met make-up heeft gespeeld, dat is vreselijk opgeblazen.
Over die foto's heb ik het niet. In het de PJ files zitten negatieven van foto's van Dave met de kinderen op schoot waar zijn handen "all over the place" zijn. Als je niet met de gedachte aan pedofilie kijkt dan valt het misschien niet zo op dat Dave zijn handen toch veel heeft zitten waar het niet hoeft. Net zoals je je als je nu naar de filmpjes van Marco Borsato met zn protege's je opvalt dat hij ze toch erg zit te bepotelen.
Daphara schreef:En nogmaals, er is nul bewijs voor seksueel misbruik door de McCanns of door één van de vriendengroep gevonden, dat ondanks honderden proffesionele rechercheurs die het onderzocht hebben, de journalisten en en de tientallen amateur onderzoekers die in het McCann complot geloven.
Deze bevindingen laat ik maar voor jouw rekening. Er is geen bewijs voor seksueel misbruik gevonden.
Madeleine is immers spoorloos. In het geval van seksueel misbruik, kun je je misschien wel voorstellen waarom Madeleine spoorloos is, ook al zou haar dood het gevolg van een ongeluk zijn geweest. De aanwijzingen voor seksueel misbruik die er waren, zijn helaas niet onderzocht.
Geplaatst: 23-02-22 20:44 
